How to count your 5/24 status

With the introduction of its unofficial 5/24 Rule, Chase has made life much harder for those who like to frequently sign up for credit cards to get the signup bonuses.  With the 5/24 Rule, Chase denies most application in which the applicant has opened 5 or more cards in the past 24 months.

And we’re not just talking about Chase cards here.  All issuers count.  If you’ve never opened a Chase card in your life, but you opened 3 Amex cards and 3 Citi cards in the last 24 months you may be out of luck.

Even authorized user cards count.  If you opened 3 of your own cards and were added as an authorized user to 3 other accounts in the past 24 months, you may be out of luck.

Fortunately, not all cards count towards the 5/24 Rule.  Many business cards do not appear on personal credit reports and therefore do not count towards 5/24.  See: Business card advantages (and a straw man plan).

How to count your 5/24 status

Chase bases its count on info found in your personal credit report.  There are many ways to get your credit report for free so that you can count your 5/24 status yourself.

Here’s one way to count your 5/24 status… step by step.  A similar process should work with just about any tool or report that shows you your credit report details.

1) Credit Karma: Setup account or log in

Credit Karma is one of many available free services that estimate your credit score.  I particularly like Credit Karma because it gives you free access to your TransUnion and Equifax credit reports, and optionally provides active monitoring of your TransUnion report.

When you first log in, Credit Karma will show you your estimated scores:

5/24 status: Credit Karma Credit Scores2) Click “Credit Reports” on the sidebar:

5/24 status: Credit Karma Sidebar Credit Reports

3) Scroll down to find the number of accounts on your reports.

The numbers include credit cards (opened and closed) as well as other accounts such as mortgages, auto loans, and student loans.  Usually the totals will be identical across both credit reports:

5/24 status: Credit Karma Number of Accounts and Account Mix

4) Click “Credit Cards”

By clicking the “credit cards” link in the first column, you’ll see a list of credit cards on your TransUnion report.

5/24 status: Credit Karma Accounts

5) Sort by Open Date

Click the heading “Open Date” once to sort ascending:

5/24 status: Credit Karma Accounts Sort Ascending Zoom

6) Scroll to find recently opened accounts

Scroll down until you find the first card opened within the past 24 months.  For example, if the current date is August 24th 2016, then you would look for the first card opened by or more recently than August 24th 2014.

In my case, my first qualifying card was opened on September 23rd 2014:

5/24 status: Credit Karma Accounts Sorted Scrolled

7) Count ’em up

Starting with the first card that appeared within the past 24 months, count all of the cards that were opened on that date or more recently.  Closed cards do count.  Authorized user cards do count.

If you’ve signed up for new cards in the past 30 days or so, those may not be reflected in your Credit Karma report.  Fortunately, if you’ve turned on Credit Monitoring (go to the person icon on the top right of the screen and click “Communications & Monitoring”) you should have received an email alert from Credit Karma if any new accounts have been added.  If so, add these to your count.

I currently have 24 accounts that were opened in the past 24 months.  So, I am waaaaaay over 5/24.

Do Chase Business cards add to your 5/24 total?

Chase business cards do not appear on personal credit reports, but obviously Chase knows if you have opened those cards in the past 24 months.  The question is whether Chase includes those cards in the total for 5/24 Rule purposes?  If you have first-hand information that would help answer this, please comment below. Ideal evidence one way or another would be if Chase tells you during a recon call how many cards you opened in the past 24 months.  You can then compare that number to the number you calculate yourself with and without counting Chase business cards.

Evidence that Chase counts their own business cards:

  • Logic: they have access to that information, so why wouldn’t they use it?
  • Flyertalk: The Flyertalk wiki on this subject says so. Presumably there were reported data points that support the theory.

Evidence that Chase does not count their own business cards:

  • Reader reports: A number of readers have reported success when applying for the Sapphire Reserve card despite being slightly over 5/24.  In several cases, the readers said that their estimate of their 5/24 status included Chase business cards.  This suggests the possibility that Chase business cards were not included in Chase’s count of recently opened accounts.

UPDATE 9/28/2016: The majority of evidence suggests that Chase does not count Chase business cards towards 5/24.

UPDATE 1/15/2017: New evidence from a few readers suggests that Chase may count Chase business cards towards 5/24.  To be safe, include Chase business cards in your count if you’ve opened any in the past 24 months.  Let me know if you get confirmation about this theory one way or another!

Overcoming 5/24

Fortunately, there are ways around the 5/24 rules.  Please see the following resources:

About Greg The Frequent Miler

Greg is the owner, founder, and primary author of the Frequent Miler. He earns millions of points and miles each year, mostly without flying, and dedicates this blog to teaching others how to do the same.

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Pingbacks

  1. […] If you often sign up for credit cards in order to earn huge signup bonuses, then you’ve probably realized that managing your credit is important. And it’s not just your credit score that’s important — it’s also good to know the details of your credit report and to be alerted when new hard inquiries are made. Chase’s dreaded 5/24 Rule is a good example of this.  Chase will often decline an applicant if he or she has opened 5 or more credit cards with any bank in the past 24 months.  So, it’s a good idea to know how to count your 5/24 status. […]

  2. […] One side benefit of applying for Amex business cards is that they do not hurt your chance of getting Chase credit cards in the future.  Chase infamously declines many credit card applications for those who have signed up for 5 or more cards in the past 24 months.  Amex business cards do not show up on your credit reports and so they do not affect your “5/24 count”.  See: How to count your 5/24 status. […]

  3. […] The key is simply to stop applying for cards that contribute to your 5/24 condition. All new personal credit cards, from any bank, count towards your 5/24 condition. And, being an authorized user on a personal credit card counts (but often can be argued away with a reconsideration call). For details on assessing your 5/24 condition, see: How to count your 5/24 status. […]

Comments

  1. Why are closed accounts pertinent?

    I thought only opened accounts are relevant- I just closed several cards to not pay a fee. Perhaps would have re-thought that if i thought that mattered.

  2. While it may be true that usually the counts are the same between the two, in my case it is quite a bit off. Transunion reports 3 more credit cards, 1 more auto loan, 9 more student loans, and 1 more “other loan” account. In this case, I suppose it would matter which agency Chase pulls – for my wife’s CSR application, it was Equifax. If I recall correctly, that can vary (by state?). Might be useful to add some instruction for folks in this situation…

      • Never frozen a report. I took a look through and coincidentally enough the 3 credit cards extra on Transunion are actually Chase cards – 2 where I am an AU, and 1 where I’m the account holder. They (and the other discrepancies) are scattered throughout the dates, not clustered at all.

        The auto loan and 8 of the 9 student loans are all very old. The 9th student loan and the “other” loan are as mysterious as the Chase cards…

  3. Hi Greg:
    Thanks for the insight on the 5/24 rule. I went back and found my 5th card was opened August 20th of 2014. I rolled the dice and applied for the Reserve. I received instant approval. My Fico scores are all in the 820’s. I have an income in the mid 60,000’s. My credit line was 10,000. I have other Chase products with a total credit line of $35,000. Thanks again for your fine column.

  4. Thanks Greg

    this was a very helpful post, as usual. I knew I was way over but had never bothered counting, so at least now I am informed on my count (14/24) and how long I need to ‘abstain’ from personal applications if I want to eventually get some sort of sign-up bonus for the CSR.

    Thanks

  5. Thx for the lesson. Do you know if downgrade of credits cards opened longer than 24 months count towards the 5/24 rule? Or conversions like Barclay US Air to Aviator Red?

    • Usually a downgrade won’t change the original opened date, but I’m sure there are some situations where the issuer treats it as a closure of one card and a new account for the other. In those cases, they might report the new date to the credit bureaus. I don’t know off the top of my had if or when that happens.

    • Different banks may report differently, but I had a Citi AAdvantage card that I converted to a DoubleCash and it didn’t change the open date (or anything else I can tell) on my credit report.

      I also have a former Barclays US Air card that was converted to an Aviator Red, and that too still shows the original open date.

  6. I applied for the reserve with 3/24. If you include the cause business cards I’ve applied for then I would be 5/24 (southwest and ink plus) so i don’t believe it counts towards the actual 5/24 limit. I was not instant approved because I had to much “exposure” as they put it, meaning I had to much credit availability. I was however able to get he card by moving credit around. The minimum for opening a line on this card is $10,000.

  7. Wait, so chase doesnt count closed accounts in the 5/24 rule? Even if they have been opened and closed within the past year?

  8. Holy cow… I went through this last night and had 6 open cards the last 24 months, including 2 as authorized users.

    I decided to give it a whirl and approved! Wow!

    Here is my story, I have 20k in savings/checking with Chase, plus my parents have me listed as a user on their checking account, and they are a Chase Private Banking client.

    840+ credit score… Sweet!

  9. I’m more curious about store cards. Business cards are talked about a lot in relation to 5/24, but so far on several sites I’ve only heard “store cards usually don’t count” but no data points. Has anyone compiled much info on this? I’m at 5/24 with a home depot card. I know store cards are frowned upon in the churning world but 20% savings on new appliances beat 2% travel rewards. 🙂

    Thanks,
    Jason

    • This past week I applied for the CSR again after going from 6/24 to 5/24 with one store card still in the mix. App was denied, and the agent on the recon line said that store cards DO count. Will have to wait until Dec. when I roll back to 4/24.

        • They will count only if they appear in your credit report, the ones that Chase will pull in your State.

  10. Crap, I’m way over too – it seems like almost half of these accounts came from AU cards. So is it worth the time and effort to have the AU accounts removed? I’m thinking, even if I have most of my non-Amex AU accounts removed, this would be a futile attempt to get under 5/24 until these accounts roll off.

  11. Blah. I have 5 (personal) in 24, and the 1st was on September 27, 2014. One was an AU account. I’m debating whether to apply now or just wait. Since I have no banking relationship with Chase, I’m probably going to wait for a month.

    5/24 is such a stupid rule.

  12. Approved for CSR in branch but I am only at 3/24 – just went in branch because there are plenty of branches in Texas and I figured it would be quicker and I wouldn’t have to wait for the chance of a 7-10 day processing with on-line app. I tried for expedited card and banker called but they said no to that because they are not expediting right now. It was funny that he mentioned 5/24 all on his own with no other explanation of it. Seems to only ones applying in branch are the churners that know what 5/24 means :). He said he’s had 4 applications so far this week and all over 5/24 were declined.

  13. I checked Credit Karma to figure out how many new accounts I had over the 24 months first. I had five or six authorized user ones and four individual ones. Called reconsideration line, was told I have been denied due to too many new accounts. I then asked them to reconsider since most of those accounts were authorized user ones. The rep then went on to take those out and said since I only had 4 in my own name, she could reopen the application. After a short process, voila! I was approved! So happy…

  14. FYI, Chase pulled my Equifax and not TU based on checking Credit Karma (I can see the inquiry went on Equifax) which is what likely lead to my decline (under 5/25 on TU but over on Equifax).

  15. On recon call directly to Lending Dept, the rep would discard Store card and AU account readily, based on personal and friends’ experience. CPC helped in early going but now seems to be losing its pull. CPC bankers no longer can call Lending on your behalf per some DPs.
    Personally I found that calling Lending Dept myself worked A LOT BETTER than the CPC banker did. I had a great lady rep, friendly and casual. We chitchatted on other stuff while she was reviewing my app and profile. Though the count from her end at 11/24 was over my own count of 8/24 including AU on DH’s Hyatt and AU on his AMEX DL Biz and SPG Biz. Somehow she also saw the AMEX Biz AUs. Approved by reallocating CL. Told if I wanted more CL the app would have to go up for further review but she could approve me on the spot if we shuffled the existing lines. No brainer. Then asked her to look at DH’s which had much more accounts opened than mine but I prewarned her of that fact. So no question. Again shuffled CL and he got his. This was on Thursday 8/25.

  16. I had opened 5 cards in the past 22 months. One card was the Southwest Business card. I was instantly approved for the CSR. In my case, a chase business card did not count.

    I do not bank with chase. Credit score 800.

  17. Any data on exactly when the 5/24 clock starts? I drop to 4/24 on 10/21, but did not know if I should wait until 11/1 (new month). I have a big expense in November that will cover the minimum spend, but I need to plan time for the card to arrive.

    Looks like Bill U above may have partially answered the question, but not sure if anyone knew for sure.

    • I’ve heard conflicting reports. One said that a card days older than 24 months was counted towards 5/24 and so he recommended waiting until the next calendar month. Others have said that they had success applying a day or two after such cards dropped off. I’d recommend playing it safe and waiting until 11/1 unless we learn more.

  18. I converted (Product Change) my 4 year old “AAdvantage AMEX” into Costco Visa today/ I have 2 questions.

    1. Since the new card is Visa, I will get a new card number. How will chase view this from a 5/24 perspective
    2. Since this is a Product Change (Even from AMEX to Visa), will my history be carried over in my credit report

  19. A family member had 3 Chase apps and 2 Synchrony apps (Old Navy & JCPenney) in the last 2 years and Chase wouldn’t approve due to 5/24. Tried calling back a few time and was given the same answer.

    Was told that the Synchrony bank apps are not ‘credit cards’ and not store cards so they do count as new, valid accounts. Bummer

  20. “New evidence suggests that Chase does count Chase business cards towards 5/24!”

    What are you basing this on? There are tons of data points that prove otherwise. Please don’t get offended, I’m just curious to this new found evidence.

  21. I’m trying to count my wife’s 5/24. She has the sapphire that is hers but other wise she is an AU on two of my chase cards. I am holding back on any more before the end of the year because I want to flip the Companion to her. I am planning on closing one of the two chase cards which she is an AU on. Does this get rid of it from her 5/24 count?

    • A better approach is to simply have your wife send a secure message to Chase to ask that those cards (where she is the AU) be removed from her credit report. Cancelling cards won’t automatically remove them from her credit report.

  22. I wish they would just come out and say what they are counting and what they are not. I haven’t been able to get a card for my husband, and the rejections never have a phone number to call and discuss it. How do other people get numbers to call?

    He has gotten what I would call 3 legitimate cards: Chase Freedom, Amex Delta and Barclay Arrival. But he also got Amazon store card, 2 Chase business cards, AU on my Sapphire, and Delta upgrade from Gold to Platinum. I can’t figure out which they are counting to know when to apply again. It could be anywhere for 3/24 to 8/24. One falls off every few months so it would be nice to know when to try reapplying.

  23. Also, is it “less than 5” in 24, or “no more than 5” in 24? I.e. If you’ve had 5 can you get a 6th, or can you only have had 4 and then you get a 5th? Thanks

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